关于中国诗英译的一些问题
关于中国诗英译的一些问题原诗：青山横北郭 白水绕东城 （选自李白《送友人》）英译（两种）：Where blue hills cross the northern sky,Beyond the moat which girds the town, ( by Giles )With a blue line of mountains north of the wall,And east of the city a white curve of water, ( by Bynner )有人认为英译诗里的 where 和 with 可以省略，并且指出，正是这些引导性的词语使得原诗中的事物形态的直接呈现在译诗里变化成为分析性的说明文字，其语法结构完全破坏了中国诗独有的超时空的美感。
此例涉及翻译和美学，想请准学妹综合起来说说看法。散谈随意，不泥完备。
全部回答
原诗：
青山横北郭 白水绕东城 （选自李白《送友人》）
英译（两种）：
Where blue hills cross the northern sky,
Beyond the moat which girds the town,
( by Giles )
With a blue line of mountains north of the wall,
And east of the city a white curve of water,
( by Bynner )
鄙人观点：在中诗英译界中早有诗可译论与不可译论。
Robert Frost 认为，“Poetry is what is lost in translation。”。而郭沫若和许渊冲则认为可以通过创作来弥补所谓“what is lost in translation”。
鄙人也赞成第二个观点，因为“从心所欲，不逾矩，是一切艺术的成熟境界。 ”（朱光潜的《诗论》）。
英诗有英诗的美，汉诗有汉诗的美。英语是以形驭意，汉语是以意驭形。二者语言本身有自身的特点，不赞成把with和where去掉。
当然在译的过程中，肯定会达不到原诗的美，但这样并不代表不能翻译。可以通过一些补救措施。详细请看许渊冲先生的相关译诗理论。
至于上面两个译本，鄙人觉得已经翻译的相当不错了。
鄙人译文：Blue hills beyond roll o'er the norther sky;
The moat around girds the east town nearby。
。
自从接到【准学妹】通知，时时惦记，但因所知有限，一直在寻找相关资料，终于让我捞到了这些，供大家参考、交流：
V1: Witter Bynner 译；V2，V4，V9：译者未知；V3：Ezra Pound 译；V5：Stephen Carlson 译；V6：见P1-3；V7：许渊冲 译；V8：Burton Watson 译；V9 ：howard2005 译
V1: A Farewell To A Friend
V2: Seeing Off A Friend
V3-V4: Taking Leave of a Friend
V5: Seeing a Friend Off
V7: Farewell To A Friend
V8: Seeing a Friend Off
V9: Bidding adieu to a Friend
青山横北郭 白水绕东城
此地一为别 孤蓬万里征
浮云游子意 落日故人情
挥手自兹去 萧萧班马鸣
V1: With a blue line of mountains north of the wall,
And east of the city a white curve of water,
Here you must leave me and drift away
Like a loosened water-plant hundreds of miles。
。。。
I shall think of you in a floating cloud;
So in the sunset think of me。
。。
。We wave our hands to say good-bye,
And my horse is neighing again and again。
V2: Green hills above the northern wall,
White water winding east of the city。
On this spot our single act of parting,
The lonely tumbleweed journeys ten thousand li。
Drifting clouds echo the traveller's thoughts,
The setting sun reflects my old friend's feelings。
You wave your hand and set off from this place,
Your horse whinnies as it leaves。
V3: Blue mountains to the north of the walls,
White river winding about them;
Here we must make separation
And go out through a thousand miles of dead grass。
Mind like a floating white cloud,
Sunset like the parting of old aquaintances
Who bow over their clasped hands at a distance。
Our horses neigh to each other
as we are departing。
V4: Blue mountains lie beyond the north wall;
Round the city's eastern side flows the white water。
Here we part, friend, once forever。
You go ten thousand miles, drifting away
Like an unrooted water-grass。
Oh, the floating clouds and the thoughts of a wanderer!
Oh, the sunset and the longing of an old friend!
We ride away from each other, waving our hands,
While our horses neigh softly, softly 。
。 。 。
V5: Green mountains range beyond the northen wall。
White water rushes round the eastern town。
Right here is where, alone and restless, he
Begins a journey of a thousand miles。
While travelers' intents are fleeting clouds,
A friend's affection is a setting sun。
He waves good-bye, and as he goes from here,
His dappled horse lets out a lonely neigh。
V7: Green mountains bar the northern sky;
White water girds the eastern town。
Here is the place to say good-bye;
You'll drift like lonely thisledown。
With floating cloud you'll float away;
Like parting day I'll part from you。
We wave as you start on your way;
Our steeds still neigh, "Adieu, adieu!"
V8: Green hills sloping from the northern wall,
White water rounding the eastern city:
Once parted from this place
The lone weed tumbles ten thousand miles
Drifting clouds—a traveler’s thoughts;
Setting sun—an old friend’s ehart。
Wave hands and lets us take leave now,
Xiao-xiao our hesitant hoses neighing。
V9: Across the north suburbs the mounts lie blue,
Around the town’s east the stream windeth white。
We are to bid each other here our adieus,
And ye would wander far away ere this night。
Like floating clouds appear the wayfarer’s thoughts,
Our friendly fleelings seem the sunset glow。
With waves of hands we bid our farewell now。
“whinny!” doth neigh the departing colt to go。
从上面译本中看，前三则及第8则（第6则同于水智者所呈），都用独立结构或介词短语开始，将主题句置于诗中。
由于独立结构或介词短语整体表达的需要，其中的with，where，across 应该都不省略。
向【准学妹】交作业咯！
下面与【原北客】小作交流。
说到翻译和美学，最近正好一直在看一本此方面书籍。其中谈到此类观点：简洁美和充分美。书中的充分美，倒是正好与您所谈到的要不要with、where相关。
即，有了with，有了where，整首诗歌表达 结构更为严谨，内容更为合理，衔接更为紧凑，表意更为充分。从而使诗歌更具建筑式的结构美，韵律上的节奏美，内容上的充实美，情感上的畅达美。
Where blue hills cross the northern sky,
Beyond the moat which girds the town,
'Twas there we stopped to say Goodbye!
And one white sail alone dropped down。
Your heart was full of wandering thought;
For me, –my sun had set indeed;
To wave a last adieu we sought,
Voiced for us by each whinnying steed!
===========这个是Giles 版本全文。
Where blue hills cross the northern sky,
Beyond the moat which girds the town,
'Twas there we stopped to say Goodbye!
And one white sail alone dropped down。
这个才是完整的第一句。从which girds the town可以看出，第一句，从句描写用的是一般现在时。那么cross应该作为动词存在的，是where引导的状语从句的谓语动词。
所以，这是一个从句,where不能去掉。主句是'Twas there we stopped to say Goodbye!And one white sail alone dropped down。
******************************
再看第二首
With a blue line of mountains north of the wall,
And east of the city a white curve of water,
Here you must leave me and drift away
Like a loosened water-plant hundreds of miles。
。。。
I shall think of you in a floating cloud;
So in the sunset think of me。
。。
。We wave our hands to say good-bye,
And my horse is neighing again and again。
（by Bynner)
这里with，就是强调这个景色是和送别紧密相关，英语和中文不同。
中文环境描述可以是不需要强调和后面场景的联系，但英语去掉with，第一句整体就会显得结构很松散。英语更注重结构上的严谨。
你贴出来的只是第一句的一部分，而不是第一句的全部，所以，你会觉得where或者with可以去掉。
但只要结合起整句的主句，这两个部分就不能去掉。这个已经不是诗歌的问题，而是语法问题。
---------
仅供参考。
李白《送友人》
青山横北郭， 白水绕东城。 此地一为别， 孤蓬万里征。 浮云游子意， 落日故人情。 挥手自兹去， 萧萧班马鸣
对不起，我不是准学妹，在这里附庸风雅一下。
请包涵。
诗词几乎是没有办法很传神的翻译出来的。除了押韵的问题，其中的意境更是在翻译的过程里遗失荡尽。 李白的这首诗，其中的意境犹如图画一般铺陈在读者的眼前。（其实，像徐志摩的新诗也一样的不好翻译）。
楼主所提的这首诗的第一句，青山横北郭， 白水绕东城。这里的两个动词“横”与“绕”不是cross或gird（Giles的翻译）所能表现的。Bynner的翻译更是把动词给去掉了。 成为不完整的句子。
至于with或where是否可以去掉。我个人觉得不应该去掉，应为这第一句是要带领下面的几句与友送别的话。
如果用这样的翻译：
With blue hill cross the northern wall,
and white water girds the eastern city;
虽然没有达成押韵的目的，可是上下两句是对称的。
。
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